Comments on: How can God not have a beginning? http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/ Just another WordPress weblog Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:52:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Stan Jantz http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-19206 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 04:10:41 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-19206 Keep thinking...keep reading...keep praying. As the Scriptures say, "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him" (Hebrews 11:6). Keep thinking…keep reading…keep praying. As the Scriptures say, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” (Hebrews 11:6).

]]> by: Peter Spyche http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-19059 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:39:00 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-19059 Well, I have been thinking for a month about your response. I may have to disagree with you about spontaneous creation. I believe it has been proven that the combination of certain amino acids can produce the basic structures to sustain life in single cell creatures. It was natural selection that allowed them to evolve over several billions of years. The need to survive and adapt to the environment was the catalyst that nudged, if you will, life to crawl from the waters and walk upright. If I again try to reason the beginning of man as the bible teaches, I would have to acknowledge philosophical over empirical knowledge. Here I would have to accept the notion that this planet existed in all it’s splendor and abundance to sustain human life, with no humans present. Then, one day, poof, Adam and Eve appear. I won’t get into the whole apple, temptation and original sin thing. To me it sounds too much like a business plan for franchising an operation intended to last thousands of years, which coincidentally mirrors the religion model, but I digress. I am immensely interested in philosophical discussions on topics such as this. I have not poured as much thought into it as I have since our exchange began. It has been a most intellectually stimulating experience and I thank you for that. I wish there we more people closer to me with whom I could interact at this level. Maybe I’ll meditate on that thought at mass this evening since it is Ash Wednesday. Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return. Well, I have been thinking for a month about your response. I may have to disagree with you about spontaneous creation. I believe it has been proven that the combination of certain amino acids can produce the basic structures to sustain life in single cell creatures. It was natural selection that allowed them to evolve over several billions of years. The need to survive and adapt to the environment was the catalyst that nudged, if you will, life to crawl from the waters and walk upright. If I again try to reason the beginning of man as the bible teaches, I would have to acknowledge philosophical over empirical knowledge. Here I would have to accept the notion that this planet existed in all it’s splendor and abundance to sustain human life, with no humans present. Then, one day, poof, Adam and Eve appear. I won’t get into the whole apple, temptation and original sin thing. To me it sounds too much like a business plan for franchising an operation intended to last thousands of years, which coincidentally mirrors the religion model, but I digress.

I am immensely interested in philosophical discussions on topics such as this. I have not poured as much thought into it as I have since our exchange began. It has been a most intellectually stimulating experience and I thank you for that. I wish there we more people closer to me with whom I could interact at this level. Maybe I’ll meditate on that thought at mass this evening since it is Ash Wednesday. Remember you are dust, and to dust you shall return.

]]> by: Stan Jantz http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-17976 Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:40:05 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-17976 You sound like a philosopher! (That's a compliment, by the way.) I meant what I said earlier that your thought process is impressive. You actually sound like David (the guy who wrote many of the Psalms). He wrote, "When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him?" (Psalm 8:3,4). Actually, I don't find it difficult at all to accept natural selection as the process of human life. But nobody, not even the most vocal Darwinists, would say natural selection brought about the beginning of life. Darwinism (or naturalism) does not have an answer for how life came to be in the first place. The theory of spontaneous generation was disproved long ago, so that leaves no options, except for one. You sound like a philosopher! (That’s a compliment, by the way.) I meant what I said earlier that your thought process is impressive. You actually sound like David (the guy who wrote many of the Psalms). He wrote, “When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him?” (Psalm 8:3,4).

Actually, I don’t find it difficult at all to accept natural selection as the process of human life. But nobody, not even the most vocal Darwinists, would say natural selection brought about the beginning of life. Darwinism (or naturalism) does not have an answer for how life came to be in the first place. The theory of spontaneous generation was disproved long ago, so that leaves no options, except for one.

]]> by: Peter Spyche http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-17783 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:01:54 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-17783 Very interesting reply, thank you for provoking more thought. "He created out of love". Out of love for what? Ponder with me for a moment. There is this supreme entity that has existed forever, and has no beginning. All of a sudden there is a need, or cause, to create a living entity "in his image"? Sounds a bit egotistical. What would be different if man never existed? What does creating something in his image accomplish? It is very difficult to grapple with this idea, man never existing. As I mentioned in my previous note, this planet will most definitely end. What would be different if mankind never existed? By the time our sun explodes and wipes out Earth, human life will only have existed for about 5 billion years if we make it that far. That's assuming we don't end it ourselves or meet some global catastrophe similar to the events that led to the distinction of the dinosauers. I'm also assuming we never figure out how to get to another solar system that sustains life. In any case human life will only have been present for a mere tick of the cosmological clock. What does that prove? Why is it so difficult to accept natural selection as the beginning of human life and the way in which it will end? Make no mistake, my faith can move a mountain. I just want to understand why. I feel at times the ability to think is not a blessing, but a curse. Very interesting reply, thank you for provoking more thought. “He created out of love”. Out of love for what? Ponder with me for a moment. There is this supreme entity that has existed forever, and has no beginning. All of a sudden there is a need, or cause, to create a living entity “in his image”? Sounds a bit egotistical. What would be different if man never existed? What does creating something in his image accomplish? It is very difficult to grapple with this idea, man never existing. As I mentioned in my previous note, this planet will most definitely end. What would be different if mankind never existed? By the time our sun explodes and wipes out Earth, human life will only have existed for about 5 billion years if we make it that far. That’s assuming we don’t end it ourselves or meet some global catastrophe similar to the events that led to the distinction of the dinosauers. I’m also assuming we never figure out how to get to another solar system that sustains life. In any case human life will only have been present for a mere tick of the cosmological clock. What does that prove? Why is it so difficult to accept natural selection as the beginning of human life and the way in which it will end?

Make no mistake, my faith can move a mountain. I just want to understand why. I feel at times the ability to think is not a blessing, but a curse.

]]> by: Stan Jantz http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-16934 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:57:05 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-16934 Thanks for your comments. You have thought seriously about this (which isn't easy to do, considering the complexity of the subject. Your question, "Why would God need us?" is an excellent one. The short answer is that God doesn't need us. He is completely self-existent, depending on nothing and no one for his existence. So why did God create humankind on the planet Earth? The only conclusion we can reach is that He created out of love. And his creation is very purposeful. Genesis says that God created humankind "in his image." That doesn't mean we look like God, buy that we have his "divine imprint" (the ancients called it the imago dei). As for faith in God, it can't be flawed because the object of faith is not flawed. If you put your faith in a flawed human being (who lets you down), is your faith flawed, or is it the object of your faith that is flawed? Thanks for your comments. You have thought seriously about this (which isn’t easy to do, considering the complexity of the subject. Your question, “Why would God need us?” is an excellent one. The short answer is that God doesn’t need us. He is completely self-existent, depending on nothing and no one for his existence. So why did God create humankind on the planet Earth? The only conclusion we can reach is that He created out of love. And his creation is very purposeful. Genesis says that God created humankind “in his image.” That doesn’t mean we look like God, buy that we have his “divine imprint” (the ancients called it the imago dei).

As for faith in God, it can’t be flawed because the object of faith is not flawed. If you put your faith in a flawed human being (who lets you down), is your faith flawed, or is it the object of your faith that is flawed?

]]> by: Peter Spyche http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-16863 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:10:59 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-16863 The notion of god being uncaused is an easy one to accept. Maybe not easy to accept as much as it is an easy way for the human mind to understand. We are beings of 2 types of understanding, imperical and philosophical. We know what we know from experience and understand what we think we know from philosophy. If God is the beginning and the end, why would he need us? There are trillions and trillions of rocks in this universe.....why humans and why here? If the uncaused started causes, what is our cause? If humans live long enough, they will definitely see their end in a few billion years when the sun runs out of enregy and explodes in a massive supernova. Is this the firey end as depicted in the apocolypse? Whether evolved or created, man has both a philosophical and an imperical beginning, and no doubt, an imperical end. Then will we see the new heavens and the new Earth? It's easy to quote the bible and throw all answers to faith, but we were given a mind, an intellectual self that has the ability to question. To what cause? The easy answer is "to test your faith". But why would faith need to be tested if it is a gift from God? Is faith flawed that it can yield to temptation only to be forgiven by a just and loving God? Mans existance seems to be more of an experiment than a test of faith. The experiment will end, faith is eternal. The notion of god being uncaused is an easy one to accept. Maybe not easy to accept as much as it is an easy way for the human mind to understand. We are beings of 2 types of understanding, imperical and philosophical. We know what we know from experience and understand what we think we know from philosophy. If God is the beginning and the end, why would he need us? There are trillions and trillions of rocks in this universe…..why humans and why here? If the uncaused started causes, what is our cause? If humans live long enough, they will definitely see their end in a few billion years when the sun runs out of enregy and explodes in a massive supernova. Is this the firey end as depicted in the apocolypse? Whether evolved or created, man has both a philosophical and an imperical beginning, and no doubt, an imperical end. Then will we see the new heavens and the new Earth?

It’s easy to quote the bible and throw all answers to faith, but we were given a mind, an intellectual self that has the ability to question. To what cause? The easy answer is “to test your faith”. But why would faith need to be tested if it is a gift from God? Is faith flawed that it can yield to temptation only to be forgiven by a just and loving God?

Mans existance seems to be more of an experiment than a test of faith. The experiment will end, faith is eternal.

]]> by: sandra bynum http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-8404 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:34:39 +0000 http://christianity101online.com/blog/2007/09/07/how-can-god-not-have-a-beginning/#comment-8404 God said he is the beginning and the end. God said he is the beginning and the end.

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